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Systems For Traders | Profit Before Work Review – John Piper

Profit Before Work Review – John Piper

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    Profit Before Work Review – John Piper

    To The Best Of Our Knowledge This Service Is No Longer Available

    Key Info

    Publisher:  Agora
    Cost:  £247 with a 30 Day Money Back Guarantee
    Review Date:  December 2009 – January 2010

    What It Says On The Website

    The system will “take just 10 minutes a day” and requires that you “check one simple website for one simple profit signal”. “If the signal is there – lock-in your profit. If it isn’t – finish your breakfast and get on with your day as normal”. You can “tap a few keys” and when you return home “bank your first £120, £274 or even £365”.

    Anyone can use this system, “No matter who you are, what you do or how much time you’ve got to spare during the day … you could do this”.

    John knows there are a “lot of people out there who claim that you can make easy money for ‘just 10 minutes work'” and they “really get my goat”, “because you and I both know it’s an absolute load of bull”. However, John uses this system himself to “generate regular profits every morning”, “since the 90s when I first discovered I could quit the trading floor and pretty much live using this system”. His commitment is to “continue doing it tomorrow, the day after that and the day after that and the … you get the idea”.

    There is some explanation behind what the FTSE is and why trading in the morning is the most powerful. There are numerous testimonials and also two examples of “winning weeks” where every day produced a profit and returns of over £2,000, for 10 minutes effort each morning.

    Some days “we might hit a loss”, “it’s just how these things play out”. “The great thing about this system, however, is that you can very quickly cover any loss anomalies with the next days wins”. Losses are limited by a “15 point risk-limiter” so “you will know exactly how much you could lose” as you place your trade. At £10 a point this is £150 per trade.

    The website statistics show a profit of over £27k for the first 9 months of 2009 (8 months actually as May was not traded), assuming a risk of £10 per point. All months showed a Net profit.

    The FAQ’s answer a few more questions. The system is operated each morning at 08:00 GMT, you don’t need any expensive hardware or software, you get full access to John’s personal email address, there are no further costs and the Money back guarantee is backed by John’s publisher, Agora lifestyles.

    The parting comment is – “I’m completely serious when I say that even if you’ve never before had a go at generating a second income by raiding the financial markets, this really is the one for you to try”.

    The Material

    The manual is quite simple and straight forward. It covers all the basics on opening an account and placing trades (FTSE spread-bet trades), these basics can obviously be skipped by those with some experience.

    The system itself is explained in one page, two at a stretch. It really is a simple system to understand, we suggest even a complete beginner would be fully competent after a few days, a week maximum. The core of the system is “to catch early action with a view to catching all the very good moves” and a “signal is usually given within a few minutes of the FTSE opening at 08:00”.

    There are a number of what we call Trade management techniques that can be employed for this system. Some are complicated and would require more management than “10 minutes a day”. There is a recommend approach, it is a simplistic one and it is the one we chose to use.

    Many supporting videos are provided but to be honest we felt that they over complicated an otherwise straight forward concept. About half of the manual concentrates on; Advanced strategies, Trade history, Places to record your own results, Appendices (mostly from John’s books), Etc.

    All in all, the core system can be (and is) explained on a one pager. Those with no experience at all will maybe take a week of exposure (maximum) to completely grasp the concept. Those with previous experience should be good to go in about 10-15 minutes.

    The System

    Set up is easy, a candlestick chart on a 5 minute time-frame with no indicators, about 10 minutes each morning around 08:00 GMT.

    Entry is clear as is Initial stop loss. Targets are Stop/Time based if you chose the recommended Trade management option we did. Risk is 15 points for a variable reward.

    A 100% mechanical trading process that is almost Set & Forget. The recommended Trade management option we chose also requires some additional commitment at 12:00 and 16:25 if the trade is still open. On occasions, some additional intra-day management may also be required, see below.

    Risk wise, we applied our usual 2% of available balance per trade.

    We traded this system for the first couple of weeks of December 2009 and the month of January. We can safely say the following:

    – It’s easy to operate
    – Takes 10 minutes a day around 08:00 GMT *
    – Is pretty much 100% mechanical

    Note: If you use the recommended Trade management approach like we did you also have to be around at 12:00 GMT and again around 16:25 GMT (if the trade is still open). On occasions, when the trade is progressing very well some intra-day management is also required, usually periodically after 12:00.

    Performance wise, based on the first two weeks of December 2009 and all of January 2010, we ended up in the Red, as follows:

    December 2009 (1st two weeks), 10 trades, net loss of -21 points. About 2.5% based on 15 points risk per trade. Our biggest winning trade was 53 points.

    January 2010, 20 trades, net loss of -101 points. About 14% based on 15 points risk per trade. Our biggest winning trade was 76 points.

    So, a net loss of -122 points over 6 trading weeks. This equates to, circa, a 16% loss based on 15 points (and a 2% risk) per trade.

    Can It Work

    One thing to point out is that if you use the recommended Trade management approach, as we did, it requires slightly (and it is slightly) more effort than 10 minutes a day at 08:00 GMT. See NOTE above.

    We do like systems that require little effort and this one fits the bill just fine. Trading, in our opinion, should not mean that you are “clued to your screens”, however, the time spent at the screen should produce results. This is where this system let us down, performance was disappointing to say the least. However, we are going to use it for one more month (February) to give it more of a chance, mainly for the reasoning below.

    This trading approach is familiar to us as it reminds us of John Piper’s other material, his books and services. It favours a Low risk for High reward strategy, in this case it’s 15:100 (with the potential for more). This means of course if the Stop is not taken out the reward can be very high. One week of winning trades can outweigh a month of losing trades. This means the system is not for the impatient or for those who prefer a more balanced Risk:Reward (thus Win:Loss) profile.

    In summary, the system is all well and good when a winning streak of 4 or 5 trades a week result in a decent profit. But when you hit weeks where you have no winners or just one, performance is impacted significantly, as we experienced.

    In our case it may well be that a good February will make up for our losses to date, we at least feel it is worth the effort (on our small account). Time will tell and we will, as always, report back at the end of February with our results.


    We had no cause to use support but based on our previous encounters with John we can assume it’s timely and apt.


    • 100% mechanical.
    • Low time commitment.
    • John, whose experience and knowledge we respect, states that he has been trading this system himself for over 10 years and still does.

    • Significant periods of losing trades (and drawdown) are highly possible, due, mainly, to the Low risk:High reward profile.
    • Results during our exposure (6 weeks) disappointed, with a significant drawdown.
    • It may be fair to use the old saying – Not for widows or orphans.

    Do remember, your comments are important – If you have used or decide to use this system, please contribute to the community by reporting back your findings.

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    Systems For Traders had to be rebuilt in 2013

    This is a selection of key posts and comments from the original forum prior to the rebuild



    As promised in the main review here are our February results for John Pipers PBW system. Unfortunately we added to our losses rather than, as we had hoped, made some gain. For details of which of the strategy options we used please see the main review.

    We had 20 trades in February and a net loss of -55 points. About 7% based on 15 points risk per trade. Our biggest winning trade was 63 points.

    We will no longer be monitoring this system but welcome feedback from those with more recent experience and which strategy option they are trading.



    Brilliant review, agree with everythng said. I have tried this system over Jan & Feb 2010 and also made a loss.



    Didn’t work for me either. But they honoured the refund, which is good.

    Members can post and subscribe to threads like this one

    And also receive an email every time we post a new review

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